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Master Member
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Jean
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14/09/2011 13:44:08
Our history in SA
Nothing rugby, but an interesting read.We have grown accustomed to white people being hated for apartheid. See this article with some surprising stats that I stumbled upon...it is long, but interesting.
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MONDAY, 15 AUGUST 2011 19:22 Mike Smith
Emeritus Arch Bishop of Cape Town is at it again and in the news for asking whites to pay a reparation tax or wealth tax because they all apparently benefitted from Apartheid.
Along came his cheerleading constitutional expert and praise singer Pierre de Vos from UCT and said, “The problem is, of course, that some white people – out of shame or ignorance or maybe a bit of both – do not want to admit that white South Africans almost all benefited from apartheid vis-à-vis black South Africans.”
Almost All? Who were the ones that did not benefit? Again facts sucked out of each other’s thumbs.
As I have proved in Opening Pandora’s Apartheid Box…everyone in South Africa benefitted from Apartheid, Black and White. Blacks had the highest literary standards and the highest life standard of all the blacks in Africa.
Self hating liberal idiot, De Vos reckons, “If I had been born black and poor, I almost certainly would not have gone to University and I would almost certainly never have been a Law Professor at UCT (University of Cape Town), earning quite a nice salary, thank you.”
I love the way he chooses his words. “Almost All”…”Almost Certainly”…As always both De Vos and The Arch fails to explain how it was at all possible for Tutu to study and become a teacher just like his father was.
They also fail to explain how Nelson Mandela, and countless other blacks managed to become lawyers during Apartheid South Africa, lawyers just like De Vos.
They further failed to explain how the Apartheid government built ten Universities for blacks including Medunsa which is a unique medical university that turned out 200 highly qualified black doctors every year all at state costs, paid for by the white taxpayers. It also trained paramedics and nurses.
Since 1970 the budget for black education was raised by about 30% per year every year. More than any other government department.
In the period 1955 -1984 the amount of black school students increased 31 times from 35,000 to 1,096 000.
65% of black South African children were at school compared to Egypt 64%, Nigeria 57%, Ghana 52%, Tanzania 50% and Ethiopia 29%..
Amongst the adults of South Africa, 71% could read and write (80% between the ages 12 and 22). Compare this to Kenya 47%, Egypt 38%, Nigeria 34% and Mozambique at 26%.
In South Africa, the whites built 15 new classrooms for blacks every working day, every year. At 40 children per class it meant space for an additional 600 black students every day!!!
In 1985 there were 42,000 Blacks at 5 universities in South Africa, about the same amount at the universities of the homelands.
In an article called “Die Afrikaner” 11 Feb 1987, the quarterly magazine called “Vox Africana Nr 29 4/87 stated that,
South Africa had 4,8 million whites and 18,2 million blacks in 1987. The whites paid 77% of the taxes and the blacks only 15%....despite this...56% of the government budget was spent on blacks.
During the time of Dr. Verwoerd. the living standards of Blacks were rising at 5,4% per year against that of the whites at 3,9% per year. In 1965 the economic growth of South Africa was the second highest in the world at 7,9%. The rate of inflation was a mere 2% per annum and the prime interest rate only 3% per annum. Domestic savings were so great that South Africa needed no foreign loans for normal economic expansion.
Even Lord Deedes admitted, “White South Africa grew to become the economic giant of the continent, the other members of the Commonwealth virtually sank into poverty.”
At the height of Apartheid in 1978 Soweto had 115 football fields, 3 Rugby fields, 4 athletic tracks, 11 Cricket fields, 2 Golf courses, 47 Tennis courts, 7 swimming pools built to Olympic standards, 5 Bowling alleys, 81 Netball fields, 39 children play parks, and countless civic halls, movie houses and clubhouses.
In addition to this, Soweto had 300 churches, 365 schools, 2 Technical Colleges, 8 clinics, 63 child day care centres, 11 Post Offices, and its own fruit and vegetable market.
There were 2300 registered companies that belonged to black businessmen, about 1000 private taxi companies. 3% of the 50,000 vehicle owners in 1978 were Mercedes Benz owners. Soweto alone had more cars, taxis, schools, churches and sport facilities than most independent countries in Africa. The Blacks of South Africa had more private vehicles than the entire white population of the USSR at the time.
Today Soweto has modern shopping malls like, Dobsonville Shopping Centre. In 2005 the Protea Gardens Mall opened. This was followed by the Baramall Shopping Centre and the Jabulani Shopping complex and the Maponya Mall. Experts say that Soweto has as much as 25% oversupply of retail space.
The Canadian Medical Doctor, Dr Kenneth Walker wrote about Soweto, (I freely translate from “Verrat an Südafrika”, Klaus Vaque, 1987, pg 41)
“In Soweto I saw many homes that costs about $100,000 (1978) and that had a BMW in the driveway. All houses are single storey. Many are recently painted. Many had flowerpots in the windows and lawn in the front. Only 2% were shacks. If I had the choice to live in Soweto or in the apartment dwellings or “Projects” of New York, Chicago, or Detroit where there is so much crime, then I would not hesitate for one moment and choose Soweto.”
The biggest hospital in the world, Baragwaneth with 3200 beds and at its peak almost 8000 staff had 23 operation theatres fitted out with the most modern medical equipment that existed in the world. Blacks were treated here, operated on...at full state costs to the white-taxpayers for unlimited periods. The budget of this hospital was and is higher than the yearly budget of most small member states of the United Nations.
Next door to Baragwaneth is the St. John’s Eye Clinic. The clinic is world famous for the treatment of Glaucoma, Cataracts, traumatic eye injuries and rare tropical diseases. All built and maintained by white taxpayer’s money for blacks.
Baragwaneth in 1978 employed 450 medical doctors in full-time service. It treated 112 000 in-patients and 1.62 million out-patients per year. The children and infant death rate with 34.8 per 1000 was lower than Harlem in New York.
In 1982 alone, this hospital performed 898 heart operations of world quality.
Ironically...90% of the blood donors for this hospital were whites, who donated blood free of charge, totally voluntarily...to save black lives. (Quoted from The Citizen, 2 April 1987).
Whites have already given blacks their blood. What more do they want? De Vos calls for a “once off reconstruction tax”….did he forget that 20,000 “Victims of Apartheid” were compensated R30,000 each back in the days of the TRC?
Personally I think that Prof Pierre De Vos and Bishop Tutu should go get an education about the truth about Apartheid. They can start by reading my Pandora Series.
Whites have given blacks the entire country for free. Intact. There is nothing more to give. Today blacks are destroying all the infrastructure that we paid for and built. They still have the audacity to tell whites they should leave.
What I want to know is who are going to compensate whites for all the schools, hospitals, dams, airports, harbours, railroads, etc that they have built? It is high time for blacks to start paying whites. Nothing is for free.
Bishop Tutu and De Vos can start by selling their mansions and BMW’s and give it to the poor white fund of Solidarity “Helpende Hand”.
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Coach
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RE:Our history in SA
So What you trying to say by letting us read this article?The guy who wrote this should be shot with a canonball of manure. He talks about blacks getting stuff for free during apartheid. They maybe got a few things but compared to whites, there is no comparison. Another point No Money can ever pay for what Non Whites went through during Apartheid whether they made a success of heir lives or not. People (humans) were thrown out of their houses because they were not white enough to live in District Six, Claremont, Constantia,Diep River.Multicultural Communities were broken up. The list is endless and the bad of apartheid outweighs the good of Apartheid by 1000000 tons.
It wasn't me.
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Master Member
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Jean
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15/09/2011 09:19:36
RE:Our history in SA
Me thinks he takes it a bit far when he says Blacks must pay whites.
ephbee, what you are sayng is what has been thrown at the whites for the last 20 years. There is no argument that apartheid was bad and that its a good thing it's gone. There is also no argument that non whites suffered.
The reason I posted this is for the stats stated in it. Myself, as a white man is pretty fed up hearng how the white man is responsible for everything bad in this country. Even though our forefathers messed many thngs up there were many things they did well in ths country that is not recognised at all. If you cannot admit that then it says alot about you.
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Senior Member
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RE:Our history in SA
Once again we going round in circles with the same rhetoric.This subject has been beaten to death already under different threads.Like anybody else,i enjoy a healthy debate,but we choose to once again open a can of worms.Mr Admin,when someone post a thread, please make sure the subject has not been covered already.What are we trying to prove here?After all these debates we had about apartheid and whatever,i for one was hoping that we had moved on.Let us not forget the past,but let us also not cling onto to it or long for those days.What's done is done,and we cannot change history,but we can shape our own future and those of our loved ones.This is not specifically aimed at you Jean,its just an observation.
FACTA NON VERBA.....DEEDS,NOT WORDS!
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Master Member
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Jean
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15/09/2011 11:59:55
RE:Our history in SA
amabok wrote: Once again we going round in circles with the same rhetoric.This subject has been beaten to death already under different threads.Like anybody else,i enjoy a healthy debate,but we choose to once again open a can of worms.Mr Admin,when someone post a thread, please make sure the subject has not been covered already.What are we trying to prove here?After all these debates we had about apartheid and whatever,i for one was hoping that we had moved on.Let us not forget the past,but let us also not cling onto to it or long for those days.What's done is done,and we cannot change history,but we can shape our own future and those of our loved ones.This is not specifically aimed at you Jean,its just an observation.
amabok, I already stated what my motivation was for posting this. I also want everyone to move on, but when they start gunning the white man and its role in this country, they should keep these things in mind. It is very important that both sides of the story is told. How can you have any respect for the white man in SA if everything you hear is how bad they were in the past? Give credit where it is due. We are all working towards a better future, but just get the facts of the past right.
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Senior Member
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RE:Our history in SA
In any race,creed and culture you get the villians and heroes.In my career span i had jewish,portuguese,white male afrikaner and muslim mentors.All of these people had a profound impact in my life.I stayed in a squatter camp(not for wanting to feel what it was like) and i have seen the worst in people during apartheid but also those silent samaritans(white,blue black,colored purple).I can relate to frustrations w.r.t lack of acknowledgement to what the white man has contributed in a positive way as i am still friends with some of those silent samaritans.Hopefully we can all agree that as much bad there was on both sides,the good on the other side outweighs by far the bad..Our shack number was D9..and that was about 35 years ago.I will never forget,however,by the grace of Allah we were able to move on without hatred.NOW LETS TALK FOOTIE AGAIN!!!
FACTA NON VERBA.....DEEDS,NOT WORDS!
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Master Member
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RE:Our history in SA
Jean, you get agitated at words thrown at whites ... can you even imagine how it was way back when .. but hey we gotta move on .. its 2011 ..
Josh Kronfeld - half man half machine - A legend
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Newbie
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KIWI
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15/09/2011 14:58:46
RE:Our history in SA
Please ppl by living in the past will change nothing cuase one cannot change the past, so why dont we stand together as a clubrugby family and take the development of our clubrugby from strenght to strenght. I think this is not ethical to even talk about this.
ONE WHO BELIEVE SHALL BE A WINNER
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Groupie
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RE:Our history in SA
Ya guys, many good and bad things happened it the past.
And I hope to live long enough to see a truely colour blind nation.
So lets move on and make sure we raise our kids correctly.
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Coach
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RE:Our history in SA
Some very mature responses to what I feel was a pretty silly and ignorant article. Gives me a lot of hope for our country. Thanks.
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Master Member
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Jean
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18/09/2011 12:02:55
RE:Our history in SA
Toffee, I would call the article silly perhaps, but definately not ignorant. It was obviously written with emotion after another attack on the white community blaming everything on them. What you must commend is that he did his research and quoted his sources.
Josh, I get what you're saying.
I'm also impressed with most of the responses. Let's look forward to the future.
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Coach
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RE:Our history in SA
@ Jean. Maybe ignorant was harsh but the comments were very general. For example in the bad old days black teachers only needed a grade 10 to teach at black schools, A coloured teacher grade 12, wheras white teachers had to have a tertiary qualification to be able to teach. So there was education and then there was "education". There were many other inequalities but I dont want to start a whole debate. So numbers of school leavers in the article does not do it for me. But that is in the past and hopefully as a country we can move on.
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Master Member
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Jean
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19/09/2011 08:57:48
RE:Our history in SA
Toffee wrote: @ Jean. Maybe ignorant was harsh but the comments were very general. For example in the bad old days black teachers only needed a grade 10 to teach at black schools, A coloured teacher grade 12, wheras white teachers had to have a tertiary qualification to be able to teach. So there was education and then there was "education". There were many other inequalities but I dont want to start a whole debate. So numbers of school leavers in the article does not do it for me. But that is in the past and hopefully as a country we can move on.
Yes Toffee, that was true. Back then the government decided that blacks don't need such a high education, so their school work were made easier and their teachers were not very good. That was pretty bad. I don't think it's bad talking about the past as long as we get the facts straight and not attack each other.
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