Firstly I am not a Supporter of any of these clubs but I need to ask Why does the Maties 2nd Team need to play in SLA?? A community club like Tygerberg and its best players surely deserve to be there instead.Am I correct in saying that the Vics run on Flank /Prop or lock is the fourth or fifth best at the club. If the Maties have players in the WP team then it could even be their sixth/seventh best player in that position.Lets say this team was removed from SLA today, we would see Tygerberg, St Georges, Sir Lowrians, Busy Bees,Watsonia, Callies, Imiqayi all move up to higher leagues. Would that not help rugby development?What do the rest of you think? Is there even ANYONE from the Maties on this forum? Does anyone from the Maties watch CTV?, their coach is even too high and mighty to be interviewed by JP.....

Agree with your sentiments

Vics would technicaly be the Maties 2nd team, on strength as well. In past years they had the depth but I wonder how many games the Maties 2nd's have won. I have watched them twice this year (UCT/Bay) and they lost both times. For the good of club rugby, perhaps Vics should be the Maties Colts team and play in the SLB.

We've had this discussion before. The only problem is that Vics are still stronger than most other 1st teams. They beat Durbell in the first round and almost beat Maties the other day. Look where they are on the log!

If Tygerberg was strong enough they would have been in SLA. You don't need to get rid of Vics for that.

If Tygerberg was strong enough they would have been in SLA. You don't need to get rid of Vics for that.[/quote]

Jean that is the ''easy'' response... Im talking about a big rugby loving community not seeing Super A rugby for the sake of another CLUB's 2nd team. Maties could argue that they are a big University with many players, but then they argue that they are indeed a normal CLUB when there is talks of kicking them out of the CLUB Champs.At this moment in time, DurBells 2nd;s will give Helderberg a good running for their money, it doesnt mean that they should replace Berge in the League. A Springbok D Team is better than Namibia, but Namibia will still play in the World Cup.

Yes they do compete well in SLA but the problem is that VICS and Maties are not seperate clubs and act a law unto themselves. It is common knowledge that players moved in between these teams where needed and often have swung a season by fielding the strongest possible team at the end of the season, then people ask why is VICS so strong in there last few games of the season. Maties/VICS have long been treated better by the union as its been the WP feeder for the last decade, and now you see they are doing it with UCT, like they are they only club in the world! I've given up on WP picking players on merit!

 Hey JDVfan

I will agree in the sense that choose any team on merit but i would also question the WP rugby structures. If we look at the junior structures of WP over the last 15 years it was clear that young so called black players was selected on merit ( In some instances ) but what happened after that is a mystery. The junior players selected was never developed to become a WP seniot team player, hence the fact that other provinces stole these players. So what (WTF) is going on with the Development of the young talented black players - No investment no future for rugby in the Western Cape. 

kappa wrote:

Jean wrote: If Tygerberg was strong enough they would have been in SLA. You don't need to get rid of Vics for that.

Jean that is the ''easy'' response... Im talking about a big rugby loving community not seeing Super A rugby for the sake of another CLUB's 2nd team. Maties could argue that they are a big University with many players, but then they argue that they are indeed a normal CLUB when there is talks of kicking them out of the CLUB Champs.At this moment in time, DurBells 2nd;s will give Helderberg a good running for their money, it doesnt mean that they should replace Berge in the League. A Springbok D Team is better than Namibia, but Namibia will still play in the World Cup.

Your point you make with Namibia is valid. If you look at it in that context Stellenbosch should not have 2 teams in the league. It's a legacy that's come on for years and Stellenbosch rugby club is not as strong as it was in those years anyway.

Exactly what you saying is why I can't understand why white players and fans, really believe that the senior teams are representative. They believe that players of colour aren't developed enough to play senior level. At juniour levels WP have half and half but its those players we should really be concerned about as they are already in the system then they disappear into obscurity. Take one eg. WP new flyhalf, I believe he is talented, however he was given an opportunity. Before you make your debut, faith has to be shown in you that you will succeed, otherwise you're just potential. I believe it is in this regard where WP are failing, they just don't give players of colour the opportunity to shine. You cannot use Aplon, De Jongh as examples as they were exceptional and were too good to ignore. Not every player shows that, just like not every white player shows that but you still see them coming through. It is also worthy to note that Aplon was deemed not good enough before Coetzee. Ask yourself, would Jake White picked De Jongh?

JDVfan wrote: Yes they do compete well in SLA but the problem is that VICS and Maties are not seperate clubs and act a law unto themselves. It is common knowledge that players moved in between these teams where needed and often have swung a season by fielding the strongest possible team at the end of the season, then people ask why is VICS so strong in there last few games of the season. Maties/VICS have long been treated better by the union as its been the WP feeder for the last decade, and now you see they are doing it with UCT, like they are they only club in the world! I've given up on WP picking players on merit!

JDVfan, jou aanname dat Stellenbosch spelers sommer tussen Vics en Maties kan skuif soos hulle wil is verkeerd. Die WP Unie monitor al jare lank hul spanne agv klagtes in die verlede. Hulle het streng reels daaroor. Wat wel toegelaat word is as daar WP spelers terugkom mag hulle Maties speel en die ander spelers van Maties na Vics skuif. Andersins kan n speler nie van Maties na Vics gedrop word nie, maar moet hulle eers vir Maties 2 speel voor hy vir Vics kan speel en andersom. Dis ingebring om te verhoed dat Maties hierdie week teen Hamiltons n span kies en volgende week dieselfde span vir Vics gebruik as hulle teen een van die voorste spanne speel.

Hou in gedagte dat daar nie meer so n groot gaping tussen Maties en die ander SLA klubs is nie. Hulle het nie meer die "luxury" van n verswakte Maties span speel om Vics te boost nie.

The fact that you say they must first play Maties 2 before they play for Vics just proves that they are not 2 clubs, in the end players are still moving between the 2 teams, who cares if the must play a game first for a Maties 2 or vice versa!

JDVfan wrote: The fact that you say they must first play Maties 2 before they play for Vics just proves that they are not 2 clubs, in the end players are still moving between the 2 teams, who cares if the must play a game first for a Maties 2 or vice versa!

Everyone knows they are 1 klub. The name of the club is "Stellenbosch Rugby club". The issue is whether they manipulate the teams to suit them, but with these rules from WP it makes manipulation very difficult.

But they still do it, so who cares if its difficult, they should just be Maties 2 and allow another team to come up. I'm not saying it must be a 'black' team just the next best team. Then there will be no manipulation at all! Problem solved!

JDVfan wrote: The fact that you say they must first play Maties 2 before they play for Vics just proves that they are not 2 clubs, in the end players are still moving between the 2 teams, who cares if the must play a game first for a Maties 2 or vice versa!

If a person is dropped, he needs to play at least two games for Vics before he can be promoted back into the Maties set-up and visa versa.

Please read my last post!

JDVfan wrote: But they still do it, so who cares if its difficult, they should just be Maties 2 and allow another team to come up. I'm not saying it must be a 'black' team just the next best team. Then there will be no manipulation at all! Problem solved!

They still do it? Give us a recent example.